So pre v2 Catholicism is on trial for all the world to see if the Vatican will officially condemn its very own past? What does that tell ya? SSPX Catholicism (which is just pre V2 Catholicism) has not changed or transformed or modernized sufficiently to warrant being called Catholic... not even enough to warrant ecumenism dialogue?
How is remaining faithful to Sacred Tradition called “schism,” while confusion and modern errors are tolerated in Rome? Fidelity to the Faith handed down through the ages is not rebellion. The faithful serve God before men, especially in times of crisis.
So who cares what the apostate false church thinks about anything - the buildings and administrative apparatus of the Vatican are under demonic occupation - time to wake up and tell it like it is!
As Our Lady said at Quito: "those who should speak up will remain silent!"
Pray that the SSPX does the right thing and preserves the Catholic and Apostolic Faith entrusted to them by Archbishop Lefebvre. -- We are living in the aftermath and consequences of the 3rd Secret of Fatima not being revealed - and the consequent disobedience of many popes who did not obey Her request. Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima -- pray the Rosary, Catholics -- let us obey Our Mother! Ave Maria!
If Pachamama, treating an Anglican woman as an equal, and welcoming homosexuals into the Vatican isn't enough to demonstrate a state of emergency then you are being willfully blind.
This is certainly the issue , what are you doing of your faith ? A contract ? In this case i will invoke Force Majeure to save 2000 years of existence of the Church and ….MCCA , Make the Church Catholic Again
So I was told, historically governments weigh in on appointments. The blood of the English people flowed under Henry 8th and his court, and the CCP continue the war on God.
Not consecrating bishops against the will of the pope, has never been demonstrated to be absolute. In normal times, no doubt. But in an emergency, it can still be argued that the Church Herself provides.
I think traditional canon law proves this. The traditional punishment for consecrating against the pope's approval was that it was mere disobedience, a slap on the wrist. If it was so grave, against the nature of the Church Herself, the punishment would be far more grave. It was only changed to excommunication in response to communist China, not Lefebvre.
Again, that is a statement by a pope. Holding weight, of course.
But i go back to traditional canon law, which treated such actions, not as an absolute act against the nature of the Church, but as an act of disobedience, not at all a formal act of schism. The excommunication was only issued in response to communist Chinese consecrating bishops. It had nothing to do with lefebvre.
The pope had universal jurisdiction when the traditional canon was approved, and if the modern notion of automatic excommunication was per se true, canon law would reflect that. It did not. It was only added for the extraordinary circumstance of the CCP consecrations... not lefebvre.
Do your research, you have no clue what you are talking about with permission from the Pope. Listen to Kennedy Hall, Bishop Schneider, and information on pelican plus. The Pope was just with communists pro abortion and LGBT do you really think they need permission. Also Pope Leo XIV hasn't said anything it's all from the Cardinal who should be removed as a priest.
Your interpretation of that council is misconstrued for one we don't have three popes there's no unity that you have to worry about. And if you did listen to those you'll know it's not a legal issue we have a pope who is a communist he was just meeting with Communist countries he meets with pro-abortionist he will not meet with the SSPX. Again you need to do your actual research You're going off of feelings and again if you reread that council it was later abolished because of the errors in it I just read it again it's no longer used for that reason. So you would prefer that the SSPX would just vow to Rome that is full of heresies we've lost all the faithful and aside from the society and the traditional seminaries there are no priests because who wants to go in to be a priest when you're designated to be gay and attacked by gay hierarchy. I'm a lifelong Catholic I found tradition during COVID and when I have learned in my 62 years I never knew my Catholic faith. You need to read about Archbishop lefevre and read Michael Davies and listen to other people who are not society priest nor members and they will educate you on what is going wrong. And lastly I don't know how many times the society has to say it they do not want to be a parallel church they state the pope's name in their masses they're not against the papacy they're correcting the papacy because of their love of the Catholic faith
this proves nothing to me 1. this pope has promulgated documents of questionable policies which fly in the face of apostolic teaching 2. the novus ordo is not of apostolic origin.i don't think clerics who promulgate strange doctrines and disciplines have the power to do as they are doing and a pope which teaches or allows error has lost his office.
Well, the Pope has been very busy meeting with the "Archbishop" of the Anglican church. So maybe he hasn't had much time to fit in a visit with SSPX. Also, I don't think the hierarchy denying that they are putting the Church in a state of emergency is needed for there to be a state of emergency. That's kind of the point. Pope LIberius wouldn't have told the Church they were in a state of emergency when he excommunicated Saint Athanasius five times for holding to traditional Catholic doctrine.
Here we go again with over 50 years now of typical modernist equivocation/sophistry from the hierarchy. Its so discouraging as we are forced to live with this type of leadership and their wicked directives from these typical modernist apostate “mean Queen” types, just like Archbishop Weakland and Crdl Bernadin and McCarrick and Weurl and Baum etc etc....of previous lavender generations. This is such a farce that this pervert and probably sodomite is in charge with the dicastery of Doctrine and Faith. Its actually a reversal of reality that traditionalists are getting excommunicated and labeled schismatic, very much like the classic Marxist or CIA strategy of "flipping" the truth of things. This lavender dominated hierarchy and clergy, throughout the Church around the world, that continue to be ruling our Church are the ones who need to be defrocked and expunged and therefore its obvious one cannot respect them as true Catholic authority. They have taken over the magisterium ruling positions in the Church. It would be comical if it weren’t so pathetic and Satanic in origin. It is quite clear to those who can look at it squarely that these are emergency circumstances. We should be so thankful for the courage and major concern for the saving of souls that the SSPX has maintained since their founding.
The double standard is quite apparent here. I don't know much about the issue but yesterday I read something about discussion group no.9 with some outrageous suggestions…I'd appreciate some application of the Canon law there too…
There is no double standard with regard to canon law.
Go read canon law (I have, a bit). You will find nothing in there to help determine heresy from orthodoxy, other than due process safeguards. Such determinations occur mostly outside the application of canon law. Schism OTOH is clearly defined in canon law. The ‘genius’ of the German heretics, ahem, prelates is that they know canon law and so push their ideas without - as of yet - violating the canons.
Didn't Benedict XVI declare that the 1988 "excommunications" were invalid? And now Rome is planning to follow the language and form of those same invalid decrees?
People use this word, "lift" as though there were a covering applied to the motu proprio. Pope Benedict XVI annuled the motu proprio of John Paul II. It ceased to legally exist. It has zero power or authority. And when he annuled it, he required no contrition, penance, or renunciations from the SSPX. THAT IS THE POINT.
People use this word, "lift" as though there were a covering applied to the motu proprio. Pope Benedict XVI annuled the motu proprio of John Paul II. It ceased to legally exist. It has zero power or authority. And when he annuled it, he required no contrition, penance, or renunciations from the SSPX. THAT IS THE POINT.
People get so confused. There are reasons to promulgate an excommunication, and there are reasons to lift an excommunication, and the reasons to lift are almost never a negation or repudiation of the promulgation.
Well, Cardinal Fernandez has already cited the annulled motu proprio Ecclesia Dei adflicta as an authoritative source in his 'official' warning to the SSPX. That tells you they want to use the playbook of John Paul II's curia (which fell short of excommunicating the SSPX bishops + de Castro-Mayer) that declared them excommunicated 'latae sententiae' (self-excommunicated). This is tantamount to a canonical PR stunt; not only is Fernandez citing a document with zero authority in the Catholic Church, the latae sententiae decree gives the appearance that Rome is excommunicating when in fact they are not - they are placing the blame for their facade on the victims. If the act constituted a true schism, then the competent authorities should excommunicate juridically and not hide behind this canonical chicanery. The reality is they CAN'T. Why? Because Pope Benedict XVI annulled Ecclesia Dei (there is no such canonical action of 'lifting' an excommunication - that is a colloquial application) WITHOUT requiring ANY contrition, penance, or renunciation from the SSPX bishops. Its obvious that Fernandez - a conflicted partisan who appears drunk with ecclesiastical power - is betting that the Vatican's institutional memory extends only as far back as February 2026 when Fr. Pagliarani announced the consecrations. Moreover, Rome has demonstrated ZERO concern for the hundreds of thousands of faithful under the pastoral care of 727 priests supported by just two bishops in their 60s who literally live on airplanes to care for the Lord's people.
So pre v2 Catholicism is on trial for all the world to see if the Vatican will officially condemn its very own past? What does that tell ya? SSPX Catholicism (which is just pre V2 Catholicism) has not changed or transformed or modernized sufficiently to warrant being called Catholic... not even enough to warrant ecumenism dialogue?
Only if the SSPX foreswore their planned consecrations.
This at the same time the Lepanto Institute’s report provides evidence we have a communist “pope” and many communists in the Vatican. Lord have mercy!
I would no sooner get my info from LI than LifeSiteNews. Especially lately.
How is remaining faithful to Sacred Tradition called “schism,” while confusion and modern errors are tolerated in Rome? Fidelity to the Faith handed down through the ages is not rebellion. The faithful serve God before men, especially in times of crisis.
Exactly. Its a struggle to take anything from Rome seriously.
The simple solution is to have the Chinese government sent the list of the candidate bishops to the Vatican.
I am if course kidding.
The Vatican reaches out to Protestants with both arms; will the Pope lift a finger to defuse this situation?
Troll
The Vatican wants to stop SSPX because it sees the Society as a threat to their 'agenda'. The SSPX is throwing a spanner in the works, so to speak.
Maybe because they know that they are dealing with people who do not hold the Catholic faith and do not trust them?
Admonitions need be targeted to Synod Group #9 -- and far more than yet another warning to the boldly heretical and mendacious German Episcopate.
Claptrap from Tucho and crew is noxious gas.
How sad for the church to be in this situation.
The true Catholic Church - the Latin rite almost 2000 year old church would have no problem with this.
The Vat II/ Sinodal church hates its Latin language members.
So who cares what the apostate false church thinks about anything - the buildings and administrative apparatus of the Vatican are under demonic occupation - time to wake up and tell it like it is!
As Our Lady said at Quito: "those who should speak up will remain silent!"
Pray that the SSPX does the right thing and preserves the Catholic and Apostolic Faith entrusted to them by Archbishop Lefebvre. -- We are living in the aftermath and consequences of the 3rd Secret of Fatima not being revealed - and the consequent disobedience of many popes who did not obey Her request. Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima -- pray the Rosary, Catholics -- let us obey Our Mother! Ave Maria!
Tucho kisses always say non-catholic words
Toucho is a joke and while he remains in position this Papacy has little authority!
All the Vatican ever asserts is Positive Law. "Canon Law says..." SSPX keeps asserting higher Law.
There is no salvation outside Canon Law!
They have to rely on the source (Canon Law) that they are able to change to suit their agenda, while ignoring the inconvenience of God's Law.
Any valid bishop can and many times throughout Church history has consecrated bishops.
If Pachamama, treating an Anglican woman as an equal, and welcoming homosexuals into the Vatican isn't enough to demonstrate a state of emergency then you are being willfully blind.
This is certainly the issue , what are you doing of your faith ? A contract ? In this case i will invoke Force Majeure to save 2000 years of existence of the Church and ….MCCA , Make the Church Catholic Again
Tell it to the CCP.
So I was told, historically governments weigh in on appointments. The blood of the English people flowed under Henry 8th and his court, and the CCP continue the war on God.
Not consecrating bishops against the will of the pope, has never been demonstrated to be absolute. In normal times, no doubt. But in an emergency, it can still be argued that the Church Herself provides.
I think traditional canon law proves this. The traditional punishment for consecrating against the pope's approval was that it was mere disobedience, a slap on the wrist. If it was so grave, against the nature of the Church Herself, the punishment would be far more grave. It was only changed to excommunication in response to communist China, not Lefebvre.
Again, that is a statement by a pope. Holding weight, of course.
But i go back to traditional canon law, which treated such actions, not as an absolute act against the nature of the Church, but as an act of disobedience, not at all a formal act of schism. The excommunication was only issued in response to communist Chinese consecrating bishops. It had nothing to do with lefebvre.
The pope had universal jurisdiction when the traditional canon was approved, and if the modern notion of automatic excommunication was per se true, canon law would reflect that. It did not. It was only added for the extraordinary circumstance of the CCP consecrations... not lefebvre.
Do your research, you have no clue what you are talking about with permission from the Pope. Listen to Kennedy Hall, Bishop Schneider, and information on pelican plus. The Pope was just with communists pro abortion and LGBT do you really think they need permission. Also Pope Leo XIV hasn't said anything it's all from the Cardinal who should be removed as a priest.
Your interpretation of that council is misconstrued for one we don't have three popes there's no unity that you have to worry about. And if you did listen to those you'll know it's not a legal issue we have a pope who is a communist he was just meeting with Communist countries he meets with pro-abortionist he will not meet with the SSPX. Again you need to do your actual research You're going off of feelings and again if you reread that council it was later abolished because of the errors in it I just read it again it's no longer used for that reason. So you would prefer that the SSPX would just vow to Rome that is full of heresies we've lost all the faithful and aside from the society and the traditional seminaries there are no priests because who wants to go in to be a priest when you're designated to be gay and attacked by gay hierarchy. I'm a lifelong Catholic I found tradition during COVID and when I have learned in my 62 years I never knew my Catholic faith. You need to read about Archbishop lefevre and read Michael Davies and listen to other people who are not society priest nor members and they will educate you on what is going wrong. And lastly I don't know how many times the society has to say it they do not want to be a parallel church they state the pope's name in their masses they're not against the papacy they're correcting the papacy because of their love of the Catholic faith
Bravo!! Thank you for your scholarship!
It is not Divine Law.
No it isn’t.
this proves nothing to me 1. this pope has promulgated documents of questionable policies which fly in the face of apostolic teaching 2. the novus ordo is not of apostolic origin.i don't think clerics who promulgate strange doctrines and disciplines have the power to do as they are doing and a pope which teaches or allows error has lost his office.
Leo weishaar
Well, the Pope has been very busy meeting with the "Archbishop" of the Anglican church. So maybe he hasn't had much time to fit in a visit with SSPX. Also, I don't think the hierarchy denying that they are putting the Church in a state of emergency is needed for there to be a state of emergency. That's kind of the point. Pope LIberius wouldn't have told the Church they were in a state of emergency when he excommunicated Saint Athanasius five times for holding to traditional Catholic doctrine.
Here we go again with over 50 years now of typical modernist equivocation/sophistry from the hierarchy. Its so discouraging as we are forced to live with this type of leadership and their wicked directives from these typical modernist apostate “mean Queen” types, just like Archbishop Weakland and Crdl Bernadin and McCarrick and Weurl and Baum etc etc....of previous lavender generations. This is such a farce that this pervert and probably sodomite is in charge with the dicastery of Doctrine and Faith. Its actually a reversal of reality that traditionalists are getting excommunicated and labeled schismatic, very much like the classic Marxist or CIA strategy of "flipping" the truth of things. This lavender dominated hierarchy and clergy, throughout the Church around the world, that continue to be ruling our Church are the ones who need to be defrocked and expunged and therefore its obvious one cannot respect them as true Catholic authority. They have taken over the magisterium ruling positions in the Church. It would be comical if it weren’t so pathetic and Satanic in origin. It is quite clear to those who can look at it squarely that these are emergency circumstances. We should be so thankful for the courage and major concern for the saving of souls that the SSPX has maintained since their founding.
The double standard is quite apparent here. I don't know much about the issue but yesterday I read something about discussion group no.9 with some outrageous suggestions…I'd appreciate some application of the Canon law there too…
There is no double standard with regard to canon law.
Go read canon law (I have, a bit). You will find nothing in there to help determine heresy from orthodoxy, other than due process safeguards. Such determinations occur mostly outside the application of canon law. Schism OTOH is clearly defined in canon law. The ‘genius’ of the German heretics, ahem, prelates is that they know canon law and so push their ideas without - as of yet - violating the canons.
Didn't Benedict XVI declare that the 1988 "excommunications" were invalid? And now Rome is planning to follow the language and form of those same invalid decrees?
People use this word, "lift" as though there were a covering applied to the motu proprio. Pope Benedict XVI annuled the motu proprio of John Paul II. It ceased to legally exist. It has zero power or authority. And when he annuled it, he required no contrition, penance, or renunciations from the SSPX. THAT IS THE POINT.
People use this word, "lift" as though there were a covering applied to the motu proprio. Pope Benedict XVI annuled the motu proprio of John Paul II. It ceased to legally exist. It has zero power or authority. And when he annuled it, he required no contrition, penance, or renunciations from the SSPX. THAT IS THE POINT.
People get so confused. There are reasons to promulgate an excommunication, and there are reasons to lift an excommunication, and the reasons to lift are almost never a negation or repudiation of the promulgation.
Well, Cardinal Fernandez has already cited the annulled motu proprio Ecclesia Dei adflicta as an authoritative source in his 'official' warning to the SSPX. That tells you they want to use the playbook of John Paul II's curia (which fell short of excommunicating the SSPX bishops + de Castro-Mayer) that declared them excommunicated 'latae sententiae' (self-excommunicated). This is tantamount to a canonical PR stunt; not only is Fernandez citing a document with zero authority in the Catholic Church, the latae sententiae decree gives the appearance that Rome is excommunicating when in fact they are not - they are placing the blame for their facade on the victims. If the act constituted a true schism, then the competent authorities should excommunicate juridically and not hide behind this canonical chicanery. The reality is they CAN'T. Why? Because Pope Benedict XVI annulled Ecclesia Dei (there is no such canonical action of 'lifting' an excommunication - that is a colloquial application) WITHOUT requiring ANY contrition, penance, or renunciation from the SSPX bishops. Its obvious that Fernandez - a conflicted partisan who appears drunk with ecclesiastical power - is betting that the Vatican's institutional memory extends only as far back as February 2026 when Fr. Pagliarani announced the consecrations. Moreover, Rome has demonstrated ZERO concern for the hundreds of thousands of faithful under the pastoral care of 727 priests supported by just two bishops in their 60s who literally live on airplanes to care for the Lord's people.