Talk is cheap…particularly within the hyper-ambiguous Curia.
If there is no clear, tangible output of this discussion on the Liturgy (e.g. subsequent publication of a document that supersedes Traditiones Custodes or a document that directs the restoration of Gregorian Chant, Latin, Sacred Polyphony, and organ), we will continue to experience the ongoing tail spin and liturgical disaster within the Church.
The ONLY way to achieve liturgical peace is to liberate the ancient Mass of the Saints, our patrimony: The Traditional Latin Mass.
Secondly, we must be open to the historial realities of what actually happened to the Mass in the 1960s and understand that Sacrosanctum Concilium was indeed disregarded by Archbishop Bugnini’s Consilium. Expert liturgist and scholar, Pope Benedict XVI (and young priest at the Council) says it best:
————
“And I can say with certainty, based on my knowledge of the conciliar debates and my repeated reading of the speeches made by the Council Fathers, that [the New Missal] does not correspond to the intentions of the Second Vatican Council .” +Pope Benedict XVI
“The result has not been reinvigoration but devastation…. in place of the liturgy that had developed, one has put a liturgy that has been made.” +Pope Benedict XVI
"I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part upon the collapse of the liturgy…” +Pope Benedict XVI
Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict's analysis observations are crystal clear to anyone with ears and eyes open. The liturgical music in for example Spain and Italy is an absolute disaster. Even during Advent and Christmas there is no beautiful Christmas music, instead the priest belts out some of the usual banal songs used all around the year. Never any hymns books nor leaflets with lyrics. They love to talk about participation but don't stop to think about how anyone who isn't familiar with the lyrics (= all foreigners and even some Spanish) would be able to participate. Some keep belting four times throughout Mass. Concluding with saying the Salve Regina in Spanish. They never sing it in latin. One certainly wonders if they really believe in the universality of the Church. It's resembles much more of a national Spanish Church. The complete lack of formation in liturgical music is painful to watch. The same in Italy in ordinarie parishes. The result is devastating. Even Protestant friends ask " where is the choir? Where is the organ? Why don't they have a cantor?" Clergy and parishioners alike seem completely unaware of how arid and dull the liturgy looks compared to the liturgical tradition in countries like Germany Britain, Sweden etc. Lack of self criticism? A result of a peculiar kind of self isolation? Much probably due to the astonishing fact that still practically nobody in Spain speaks English. Even young people usually speak a very limited English. In any case they should study the wise words by Pope Benedict XVI carefully. And take action. Because poor liturgy and liturgical music is dangerous to the soul.
An excellent analysis on the Church in Spain and Italy. Just a real tragedy.
The Church in the US is no different. Outside of the FSSP, ICKSP, Eastern Catholic Churches, and the Ordinariate, sacred music is relegated to 1970-90s folksy secular tunes with guitars, pianos, and drums at diocesan churches.
I think you summarize it best when you state that the clergy and parishioners have a complete lack of self-awareness to what has been lost in terms of liturgical beauty and sacred music (Gregorian Chant, organ, polyphony, etc.) Let us pray for a miracle at January‘s consistory! ✝️🙏
Yes, he should address the liturgy. Not only Traditionis Custodes, but also the myriad problems with the Mass of Paul VI. The Novus Ordo and the Vetus Ordo must both be addressed.
I bet that is has to do with how homosexuality is good and child molesters are not all bad especially if they are illegal immigrants ...oh and let's add some stuff from the koran in there because it is truth.
So . . . He is going to restore the role of Cardinals but maybe take away their rights to allow the Latin Mass? Why do they need to review two Francis documents?
what about those Cardinals in automatic Latae Sententiae censorship because of their disbelief in certain of church doctrine. How can they have anything of grace to contribute to the dialogue? A thorough cleansing of the cardinate club is in order even if excommunication is exercised, restoring that aspect of the Mystical Body so 'synodal minds are all on the same page.
Is there any indication that to examine the documents of the International Theology Commission and the head of the Discastery for the Doctrine of the Faith?
The Revolution in Rome Our Lady warned us off is clearly in its final stages about to fully materialise. The framework for a new ape of the church, the Masonic one world church which Our Lady of LaSalette told us the antichrist would eventually head by taking he’s seat in Rome is virtually before us. The visible apostasy & associated changes once announced will be swift. The world is posed for major events.
The ecclesial Assembly is planned for October 2028 in the Vatican. I have no idea what that means, but I suspect that Leo will be briefing the cardinals on what the approved narrative looks like.
A public shredding of TC would be a joyous (albeit unlikely) sight.
Talk is cheap…particularly within the hyper-ambiguous Curia.
If there is no clear, tangible output of this discussion on the Liturgy (e.g. subsequent publication of a document that supersedes Traditiones Custodes or a document that directs the restoration of Gregorian Chant, Latin, Sacred Polyphony, and organ), we will continue to experience the ongoing tail spin and liturgical disaster within the Church.
The ONLY way to achieve liturgical peace is to liberate the ancient Mass of the Saints, our patrimony: The Traditional Latin Mass.
Secondly, we must be open to the historial realities of what actually happened to the Mass in the 1960s and understand that Sacrosanctum Concilium was indeed disregarded by Archbishop Bugnini’s Consilium. Expert liturgist and scholar, Pope Benedict XVI (and young priest at the Council) says it best:
————
“And I can say with certainty, based on my knowledge of the conciliar debates and my repeated reading of the speeches made by the Council Fathers, that [the New Missal] does not correspond to the intentions of the Second Vatican Council .” +Pope Benedict XVI
“The result has not been reinvigoration but devastation…. in place of the liturgy that had developed, one has put a liturgy that has been made.” +Pope Benedict XVI
"I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part upon the collapse of the liturgy…” +Pope Benedict XVI
Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict's analysis observations are crystal clear to anyone with ears and eyes open. The liturgical music in for example Spain and Italy is an absolute disaster. Even during Advent and Christmas there is no beautiful Christmas music, instead the priest belts out some of the usual banal songs used all around the year. Never any hymns books nor leaflets with lyrics. They love to talk about participation but don't stop to think about how anyone who isn't familiar with the lyrics (= all foreigners and even some Spanish) would be able to participate. Some keep belting four times throughout Mass. Concluding with saying the Salve Regina in Spanish. They never sing it in latin. One certainly wonders if they really believe in the universality of the Church. It's resembles much more of a national Spanish Church. The complete lack of formation in liturgical music is painful to watch. The same in Italy in ordinarie parishes. The result is devastating. Even Protestant friends ask " where is the choir? Where is the organ? Why don't they have a cantor?" Clergy and parishioners alike seem completely unaware of how arid and dull the liturgy looks compared to the liturgical tradition in countries like Germany Britain, Sweden etc. Lack of self criticism? A result of a peculiar kind of self isolation? Much probably due to the astonishing fact that still practically nobody in Spain speaks English. Even young people usually speak a very limited English. In any case they should study the wise words by Pope Benedict XVI carefully. And take action. Because poor liturgy and liturgical music is dangerous to the soul.
An excellent analysis on the Church in Spain and Italy. Just a real tragedy.
The Church in the US is no different. Outside of the FSSP, ICKSP, Eastern Catholic Churches, and the Ordinariate, sacred music is relegated to 1970-90s folksy secular tunes with guitars, pianos, and drums at diocesan churches.
I think you summarize it best when you state that the clergy and parishioners have a complete lack of self-awareness to what has been lost in terms of liturgical beauty and sacred music (Gregorian Chant, organ, polyphony, etc.) Let us pray for a miracle at January‘s consistory! ✝️🙏
I wonder if it mentions Jesus Christ at all….
Please.... The vicar of Christ...
My concern is about the synodality junk
Yes, he should address the liturgy. Not only Traditionis Custodes, but also the myriad problems with the Mass of Paul VI. The Novus Ordo and the Vetus Ordo must both be addressed.
Let's pray for the Holy Spirit to intervene!
Synodality- communism.
Praying...
I bet that is has to do with how homosexuality is good and child molesters are not all bad especially if they are illegal immigrants ...oh and let's add some stuff from the koran in there because it is truth.
So . . . He is going to restore the role of Cardinals but maybe take away their rights to allow the Latin Mass? Why do they need to review two Francis documents?
Magari tornasse la Messa Tridentina. Buone Santo Natale Dio con noi.
what about those Cardinals in automatic Latae Sententiae censorship because of their disbelief in certain of church doctrine. How can they have anything of grace to contribute to the dialogue? A thorough cleansing of the cardinate club is in order even if excommunication is exercised, restoring that aspect of the Mystical Body so 'synodal minds are all on the same page.
Is there any indication that to examine the documents of the International Theology Commission and the head of the Discastery for the Doctrine of the Faith?
The Revolution in Rome Our Lady warned us off is clearly in its final stages about to fully materialise. The framework for a new ape of the church, the Masonic one world church which Our Lady of LaSalette told us the antichrist would eventually head by taking he’s seat in Rome is virtually before us. The visible apostasy & associated changes once announced will be swift. The world is posed for major events.
Pray and prepare
Much depends on WHICH Cardinals are invited! Francis's inner sanctum?
Blah, Blah, Blah
The ecclesial Assembly is planned for October 2028 in the Vatican. I have no idea what that means, but I suspect that Leo will be briefing the cardinals on what the approved narrative looks like.